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Video Interview with Chief Kerr
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Being a woman in firefighting can be both an advantage and a disadvantage. You stand out, but then, well – you stand out.
Austin Fire Chief Rhoda Mae Kerr has played to her strengths for 26 years, not getting mixed up with the potential politics of being a woman in a male-dominated field, all the while quietly building the right credentials and experience to lead fire departments.
Somehow, through more than two decades, the former first responder has found the balance that has catapulted her to become one of just a handful of female fire chiefs in the nation’s metro areas and the first in Austin.
With hair that has seen shades of dark brown and “fine red wine (as Kerr puts it),” she currently sports a short, honey-colored cut. At 6 feet tall, in a crisp white shirt, trousers and her badge gleaming on the left side of her chest, the 60-year-old lover of sports cars laughs easily with staff, a trait a friend says is one of her most endearing qualities.
“The most striking part of Rhoda is she laughs easily,” said best friend Gail Anne Hoffman. “We laugh at anything. So anything you do becomes fun, and laughing becomes part of it. You can’t talk to her for more than five minutes and we’re laughing.”
The Energizer Bunny
Father Al Huber described his middle child as “bubbly” as a child. And: “She was the Energizer Bunny,” he said with an easy laugh sure to have been inherited by his daughter.
There was always the element of the boss in Kerr, her sister Abbey Marchetti, said. “She’s always been a leader. Even though I’m the older one, we would go someplace and she would be the one who would go over and talk to people, then bring me over. She’s a take-charge person, even today when she comes over to my house. (As a child) I just accepted it.”
The inevitable squabbles of two sisters 21 months apart occurred, laugh Marchetti and Huber. “I was the neat one,” said Marchetti. “I would have something in the closet, clean and neat and (Kerr) would take it and wear it. Then she grew taller than me and it wasn’t an issue,” says the 5-foot, 7-inch eldest of the Huber clan.
“Rhoda was a very active child. She was always into something,” said mom Gloria Huber. “The man we rented from – they called him Uncle Georgie – they would go to see him, and one time she got into his pretzel jar while he was taking a nap.
“She’d go outside and look around, and next thing, she would take a hose and water everything in sight, and Georgie would say: ‘Rhoda, you’re wasting the water!’”
Kerr was ahead of her class as a child – she would sneak a book under her desk and read during lessons, said Huber. “I would be called into the school.”
“When she was younger, Rhoda was always rough and would knock things over. My sister used to say, ‘Don’t let Rhoda sit next to me!” said Huber. So Mom put the girls in dance – to teach Rhoda poise and to bring Abbey out of her shyness. And it worked, said Huber.
Kerr picked up her mother’s outgoing personality, say Al and Gloria Huber, who are now divorced. “I see her do something, and I say: ‘That’s me,’” said Gloria Huber.
The sisters, with their younger brother Geoff grew up in idyllic, rural Ringwood, NJ, surrounded by mountainous forests.
“We had to walk every place. You were in touch with nature,” said Marchetti. “We had three acres of property and our next-door neighbor was not that close. It was very calming. I look back on it now, and wow, what a place to grow up in. We hiked a lot; we were always doing things with my dad, trapping beaver. The kids today wouldn’t like it, being far removed from everything. But we didn’t know any better.”
A Thing about Speed
Kerr’s athletic side would influence her first career as a teacher, which was primarily in physical education. While she was in college at New Jersey’s William Patterson University earning her bachelor’s in physical education and health, she met friend Gail Anne Hoffman through Marchetti.
Hoffman said she and Kerr would talk of their dreams and plans of taking the world by storm. “Rhoda Mae was up for anything. She wanted to fly planes, drive sports cars. She worked at camps for inner-city kids,” said Hoffman.
But after 13 years, Kerr’s chosen profession would hit a snag – she became bored. After moving to South Florida, where she taught and waitressed on the side, according to Marchetti, she met her future husband, who was a firefighter, and she was intrigued by the field.
Kerr put her all into it. Within two weeks of training, she knew this was the career for her. Within six months, she knew she wanted to be a fire chief.
“One weekend, I was visiting Rhoda. She was studying and I was reading a book by the pool,” said Hoffman. “And that’s when she told me she was going to keep on going until she became fire chief.”
Kerr worked her job as a first-responder firefighter with the Fort Lauderdale Fire-Rescue Department and over the years earned degrees and coursework that would serve her well professionally, including a master’s in public administration from Florida International University.
Gloria Huber says she worried about her daughter in her beginnings as a first responder. One time, as Huber came out of a store, she heard a honking fire truck and: “Here came Rhoda.’”
While Kerr’s firefighting career launched at a time when it was not common for women to join, she said she had an easier time than her predecessors, two women who had served as officers.
At 6 feet tall, “I’m just bigger than other women. I worked to not get sucked into the dominant group. Men would say: ‘At least you can carry a generator.’” Kerr didn’t take the bait.
“Rhoda would never do anything to denigrate another woman,” said Hoffman.
“These guys at the fire department just get a little annoyed when a woman comes in,” said Gloria Huber.
Kerr said the keys to working in a male-dominated field are: “Staying true to your core values. Having the courage to stand up for what’s right.”
Kerr steadily rose through the ranks in Fort Lauderdale until she achieved the rank of deputy chief.
Kerr has a reputation for being honest, but not abrasive; ambitious, but not aggressive. Former boss Otis Latin says her communication skills are among her greatest strengths.
“I think that she will definitely tell you what she feels is the appropriate thing, but she communicates in a manner that a person would not take exception to,” said Latin, her chief in Fort Lauderdale and today the director of Austin’s Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Management. “That’s part of the communication piece. Her background as a teacher helps, as well as her life experiences.”
“When She was Done, She was Done”
Kerr and her firefighter-fiancé were married after several years together, traveling and building a life. “(We were) married in 1987 or 1988. I don’t remember, to be honest,” says Kerr. “I’ve tried to forget.”
That’s because as Kerr’s career took off and her husband retired to fishing, there came to be friction.
“He was mean,” said Kerr. “He used to say he was a big promoter of me, but I think it became a jealousy thing.”
“As soon as she started to progress,” said Marchetti, “he changed. You could tell. For many years, they had two houses.”
Her husband insisted on living in the Florida Keys, which required her to drive down on the weekends. And there was verbal abuse, say friends and family.
“We talked about it a lot, but she doesn’t like to talk about it,” said Hoffman. “Her husband was always so nice to me. He was one of these people … He was verbally obnoxious to her; he did not treat her well. When she was done, she was done. It was a Memorial Day weekend, and she said: ‘I’m done. I can’t do this anymore.’ It was all the psychological abuse year-after-year and it takes a toll on you.”
So, eight years ago, Kerr left. That was a freeing moment for her, and she’s found that it’s nice to make decisions without negotiation sometimes. Kerr was able to rebuild her Arkansas home without compromise, something she enjoyed thoroughly.
“I’m a better person without him,” Kerr says today.
Chief Kerr
In 2003, after rising through the ranks at the Fort Lauderdale Fire-Rescue Department, Kerr landed the top post at the Little Rock Fire Department.
Kerr’s credentials were among the things that set her apart from the other finalists, said Little Rock City Manager Bruce Moore, with her master’s and her fellowship to Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government’s Senior Executives in State & Local Government Program.
“All of the three candidates had stellar careers and knowledge of fire service, but her persona, people skills, her ability to work with the firefighter just out of the academy, but also the captains, the battalion chiefs – all of (those skills) are very important to being a successful fire chief.”
And Kerr’s people skills extend beyond her professional persona.
Cissy Rucker remembers the first time they met. About four years ago, Rucker was getting her hair cut in her Air National Guard flight suit, with boots peeking out from the salon’s cape. Kerr, who was next in line, said: “I’ve just got to know” the colonel’s story, according to Rucker, and the two struck up a friendship that would lead them to be next-door neighbors and walking buddies.
Rucker saw Kerr a week after they met at an open house, and she told Kerr that her neighbor’s house was on the market. Rucker watched Kerr take what Rucker called a “rag-tag house” and turn it into a showcase that would be featured in At Home in Arkansas magazine.
For five years, now known as “Rhoda Mae,” Kerr ran a department of 402 employees and built lasting ties in the community.
The new moniker would come to be a perfect fit when she took on the role of fire chief in Little Rock. She would walk into a restaurant, and people would call, “Rhoda Mae!”
“Little Rock is a big little town,” said Rucker.
“I knew more people in town than the natives because I was engaged in the community as the chief. You’re so out front. I think it’s important they think you’re a person who is approachable,” said Kerr.
Kerr faced significant challenges in Little Rock, with limited resources, and the need for at least two more stations. Although her department always received the highest marks with citizen surveys, accreditation was a challenge. Moore says her biggest accomplishment was that she was able to secure a federal grant through SAFER (Staffing for Adequate Fire and Emergency Response,) which finances firefighters’ jobs on a decreasing scale, with the local government slowly taking over the salaries.
“We Were Not Going to Find Another Rhoda Mae”
Rucker was surprised at Kerr’s move to Austin. “My comment was: ‘You are very comfortable in this job, you are liked, you have a beautiful home,’ but she wanted to go to a bigger department,” said Rucker. “She cared a lot about her firefighters. She really took care of her employees. I always find that to be an endearing quality about people.”
“I don’t know why she would want to start all over, but that’s my sister,” said Marchetti. “She thrives on challenges. She loves it. She says: ‘I’m so busy, but I love it.’”
“In all the years I worked with her, I never saw her get her feathers ruffled,” said Moore. “As hard as it was, we had to realize that it’s very unique to have (Kerr’s) types of well-rounded qualities … We were not going to find another Rhoda Mae.”
Kerr made a strong impression in her interviews for the Austin job.
“I was impressed with her. She’s very articulate. Her education is impressive, but I was more impressed with her experience,” said Austin Council Member and incoming mayor Lee Leffingwell.
So, Kerr launched into her new job in February, taking on a dramatically larger department that had inherent problems. Previous Fire Chief J.J. Adame had resigned under a cloud and there have been concerns that the gender and ethnic makeup of the firefighters is not reflective of the region’s population. In fact, there were lawsuits and allegations of misconduct and racial and gender discrimination. Today, she faces interesting times through planned summer contract negotiations with her firefighters, resistance from some city council members to her proposals to bring about gender and ethnic equity, and budget stresses as she proposes to slash $4.4 million from the department’s $121 million budget.
How does she deal with all of this?
“A glass of wine, a nice meal, humor, exercise, and dark chocolate. The bottom line is that I’m a happy, positive person, so I don’t let these sorts of things get me down. I instead get excited about the challenges,” said Kerr.
“In addition, I feel very strongly that it’s important to maintain open communication and seek counsel from those whose opinions I respect and who I feel give me great advice,” she said.
Dealing with a significantly larger department in itself (1,100 employees compared to 400 in Little Rock) has offered its own special challenges, said Kerr. “The challenge is that there are more people that you guide and you lead. It takes longer to get things done. It takes me longer to meet everybody, to go to every station,” said Kerr. “(But) no matter the size of the budget, the impact is still the same on personnel when there are reductions.”
But the fact remains that Kerr’s role in a male-dominated field has always had appeal for her. “I’ve liked the idea of being a pioneer,” she said.
“I think (women) have to take the recognition. I hope by the end of the day, at the end of my career, it won’t be a big deal,” she said. “If you want something, you have to work at it. It’s a lot of hard work and you have to take advantage of advantages.”
Under Scrutiny? Maybe.
Yes, we finally have a female fire chief. But does it really matter?
In the forefront of city leaders’ minds is the challenge of creating a firefighter workforce that is reflective of Austin’s makeup. Depending on whom you ask, having a woman in the top post of the department may be an advantage. And some say that because she is a woman, Fire Chief Rhoda Mae Kerr faces extra pressure to succeed in the high-priority mission of gender- and ethnic-based hiring. Of 1,051 firefighters, only 51 are women and 223 are minorities.
“I think sometimes it does put a little more pressure on you. ‘We have a female fire chief. She’s going to solve all the problems.’ But (the solution) has to include the community, the fire department and the executive aspect,” said Otis Latin, Kerr’s Fire Chief in Fort Lauderdale and currently Austin’s Homeland Security and Emergency Management director.
Kerr’s gender is a plus, said Council Member and incoming Mayor Lee Leffingwell, on the issue of finding a resolution to ongoing negotiations, which hinge on how to bring the department on par in diversity with the city as a whole.
“More diversity is a priority. Her being a woman, she’s going to have a very big interest in finding ways to make that happen,” said Leffingwell.
He stressed that he doesn’t have higher expectations of Kerr regarding the negotiations because she’s a woman, but: “(Minorities and women) are in the spotlight more. People are going to be paying attention because she is a woman. That might put pressure on her, but I think she is more than up to the task.”
“There is probably a higher expectation that I will be successful,” said Kerr. “I don’t know that there is extra pressure; maybe I put extra pressure on because I feel it’s so important. The assumption is I will be successful,” said Kerr.
Kerr notes that diversity is more complex than that of the numbers. “You have to go beyond the demographics.” Life experience, age – all of these factors in a person’s life bring texture to an agency, she said. “It allows us to serve our community so much better.
“It’s a critical issue,” said Kerr. “But it is not the single most important issue. We need to improve the human relations in the organization. It’s not just what we look like. It’s also what we believe.”
It’s More Than a Name. It’s An Attitude.
Now, just how did a New Jersey girl pick up a determinedly Southern name like Rhoda Mae?
Actually, as a child, Kerr was simply called Rhoda. “I was really called Rhoda Mae only when I was in trouble.” Kerr’s mom’s love of rhododendrons and Kerr’s paternal grandmother’s name of Maebel influenced the choice in her given name.
Her ex-husband began calling her Rhoda Mae while they lived in South Florida and the name stuck.
Chief Kerr Salary Comparisons
Little Rock, AK
Fire Department
Kerr’s salary: $125,000
Employees: 402
Budget: $32 million
Stations: 20
Austin, TX
Fire Department
Kerr’s salary: $160,000
Employees: 1,051 firefighters and 67 civilians
Budget: $121 million, with a target of reducing by 3.5%
Stations: 44
In the Words of Rhoda Mae
On surviving in a male-dominated field:
“You keep your mouth closed, do your job. There’s always some resistance, some resentment. It takes time to build that respect. It’s about being true to yourself.”
The feeling of rescuing someone:
“When you go into a burning building and get someone out, you’re so happy. You focus on the training and it’s afterwards that you go, ‘Whooh!’
“Vehicle extrications were particularly difficult. How do you get this person disentangled from this mass of metal? I think those are more frightening … You don’t stop and think about the trauma. You just think about, ‘How can I make this better?’”
On relaxing after a hard day’s work:
“Summer time tends to lend itself to a nice crisp white wine. Last night, I had a little cheese, a baguette, tomato, wine, some olives,” says the long-time vegetarian and avid cook.